Transcript
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You're listening to the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
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In today's episode, we reveal two secrets to successful negotiation.
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So stay tuned.
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If you want to have real and powerful influence over the money and policy decisions that impact your organization and the people you serve, then you're in the right place.
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I'm Kath Patrick and I've helped dozens of progressive nonprofit leaders take their organizations to new and higher levels of impact and success by building powerful influence with the decision makers that matter.
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It is possible to get a critical mass of the money and policy decision makers in your world to be as invested in your success as you are.
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To have them seeking you out as an equal partner.
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And to have them Bringing opportunities and resources to you.
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This podcast will help you do just that.
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Welcome to the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
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Hey there folks.
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Welcome to the Nonprofit Power podcast.
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I'm your host, Kath Patrick.
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I'm so glad you're here for today's episode.
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And I'll tell you why.
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We're going to be talking about something that I hear so often from nonprofit leaders just freaks them the heck out and that's negotiating.
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You know, the truth is nonprofit leaders are negotiating all the time.
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But many leaders tell me that it is definitely not their favorite thing.
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For some it's super stressful.
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It can be really uncomfortable.
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But it can also be exhilarating and exciting and rewarding.
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So how do we get from stressful and uncomfortable to exhilarating exciting and rewarding.
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Well, we're going to talk about two of the most critical secrets for that shift to happen.
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There are a lot of ingredients to successful negotiation and it's important that we become skilled at all aspects of it.
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But in my own negotiating experience and in observing my clients.
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It's clear to me that there are two things that seem to get in the way the most.
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And if we can master those two things.
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All the rest go a lot more smoothly.
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So, what are those two things?
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They're related.
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And they're gonna sound really simple when I say them.
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Right.
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But here's the thing with so many of the things we talk about.
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It's simple, but it's not easy.
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The first fundamental core secret to successful negotiation is getting a hundred percent clear about your bottom line.
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Like I said, super simple and often really hard to make happen.
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So why is it so hard?
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Well, first of all, let's talk about what I even mean about getting clear about your bottom line.
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You'd be surprised how often when I'm working with clients, they're not clear about their bottom line.
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They're really clear about what they want.
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The big goal, the big thing, if they got everything they wanted.
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They're really clear about what that would look like.
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But what they're less clear about is, when they start thinking about, well, what can I live with?
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They're not as clear about that.
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And here's why it matters so much to be clear about this.
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If you go into a negotiation and you're not clear about your bottom line.
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The chances are very good you're going to give up something that you really couldn't afford to give up.
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And I've seen that take all kinds of forms, but one of the most painful are when an organization gives up sustainability.
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Very often when you're in negotiation, you're in negotiation with a funder or a payer of some sort, whether it's a foundation, a grant maker, a corporate interest, a government entity, an agency, what have you.
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Maybe it's a contracting relationship.
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Maybe it's a grant for a project.
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It could be anything.
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But it's usually around a set of things you want to do that you need to get financial support in order to do.
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And you're in negotiation with the entity that's going to provide that financial support, and they want stuff in return.
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This is everyday life for nonprofit leaders, right.
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We all know this really well.
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But what I see happen a lot is when you're not clear about two things with respect to bottom line.
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It's what is the absolute lowest price you can go for the work that you intend to do.
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do Whether that's services you want to provide, or if you're designing a project, whatever you're doing.
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There's going to be input and output.
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You're going to do a bunch of things.
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A bunch of results are going to happen.
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We can get into trouble in two pieces of that.
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I'm I'm hesitant to go down this road, but I'm going to go there for a second.
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Because I have seen this enough that I want to offer a caution about it.
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Which is that if you don't have a really clear understanding of how much work any given thing is.
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And by that I mean, how many human hours is it going to take to do this?
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And what kinds of human hours, what level of expertise is going to be required?
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What's the salary range for the people who are going to be doing that work.
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And then, what's your anticipated slide.
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Nothing goes according to plan.
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Right.
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You're going to have roadblocks you run into, problems you have to either change course partway through the thing.
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Or something you were pretty sure was going to work, doesn't work.
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And now you've got to think up a new way to solve a problem.
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And that also takes time.
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And therefore money.
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And so when we're building that project plan, we have to account for all of that.
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And be really clear about what our true costs are.
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And then when we're doing that, always, especially if it's something new.
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If it's either a new kind of work or a new approach to the work.
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Or if it's partnering with a brand new entity that you don't have any prior relationship with in terms of partnering.
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There are going to be aspects of the partnership that are not going to go as smoothly as you hoped, and that's going to require somebody's time and energy to fix that and to make it work well.
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None of that is a big deal if you are getting paid to get the work done.
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It becomes a huge deal if you agree to a particular set of outcomes and then find out that you didn't price it in such a way that you can cover your costs.
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And then that becomes incredibly stressful, So we know what that stress feels like.
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Most of us have had experiences where we calculated wrong.
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And then you got to eat it and it's no fun.
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And sometimes that can be really problematic for an organization, depending on what kind of a scale we're talking about.
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So you know you can't afford to do that.
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And yet.
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I see so many instances where, even when that calculation has been done and there's clarity about what the true cost is, folks will get into a negotiation where they're super invested in making this deal happen.
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Talk themselves out of their bottom line, inside their head, in the middle of the negotiation.
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The other party's pushing back saying, well, you know, we have a maximum budget and, you know, we can only do X.
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And you're telling us you need 1.5 X and we can't go that high.
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So, it's really going to have to be X.
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And you really want this deal.
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And so in your head, you're going well, let me see.
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What could I do?
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I can change this or I could do that.
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I can do.
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We'll just take that off.
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And if we do that, we're closer to where we need to be.
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Basically what you're starting to do is negotiating with yourself inside your head.
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Which is never a good thing to be doing.
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And if you've done that, now you are no longer negotiating from your true bottom line.
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Now you're negotiating from something that is your bottom line minus something.
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So that gets into trouble really fast.
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Now there's another piece to this.
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There's the financial bottom line.
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The investment you got to have in order to produce the outcomes that you want to get to.
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But the other way that sometimes you'll run into this, is that the other party is more interested in saving money than they are in quality.
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And so they'll want to negotiate with you on both price and quality.
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And they're like, well, can't you just give us the lite version?
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Cause we don't need all that.
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All that extra stuff you do, that's nice.
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But we don't really need all that.
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We just need the basics.
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Can't you just give us the basic package and then we can pay you this little bit of money.
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And again, where we get into trouble more than anything else is when we care too much about getting the deal done.
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Before we go into any negotiation, always want to be grounding yourself in why do I want this deal in the first place?
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What's it going to do for us?
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And a lot of times it's partly what it's going to do for us is going to bring in revenue.
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Hopefully establish recurring revenue if this goes well.
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And it's going to allow us to expand our services, serve more people, help more people.
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Have a bigger impact.
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Yay.
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These are all really good things.
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There might also be a factor of, Ooh, if we could do this deal with this entity, that would be a real boost to our profile.
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That would be a big deal.
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And we could leverage that to get in the door with a bunch of other places that we've been wanting to get in the door of.
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But, we need one big name attached to something we've done.
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And this would be our big name.
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So those are all legit.
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None of those are a wrong reason to want to do a deal.
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But the conversation you have to have with yourself and your team before you ever go anywhere near an actual negotiation is.
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Okay.
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We're really clear on all these things that we believe we will get.
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These are the benefits we will get.
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We need to be equally clear about what it will cost us to do this.
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Cause it always has costs.
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And some of those are monetary, but some of them might be an even more overloaded staff.
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We're already running on empty.
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And now this is going to be another thing that we're going to pile on top of people.
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And, you know, actually, wait a second, we really need to go back and build in another FTE on this cost matrix here because actually we are already maxed out.
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What were we thinking?
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We need to up the price.
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Because we need more people if we're really going to do this.
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Okay, so all of that happens before you ever go to negotiate.
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Because that's still determining your true bottom line.
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But when you're doing that, when you and your team are figuring out your costs and your benefits that are the drivers for why you want this deal in the first place.
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The conversation you also want to be having amongst yourselves is, okay, what are things that they might counter with and either ask for, or offer that we are okay with and that we are not okay with.
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There are some things that will be deal breakers for us.
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And I have no idea what those are.
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I can tell you that they usually come in a couple of categories.
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One is that very often can and should be a deal breaker, if they're asking for a configuration of a deal in which you lose money.
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Especially if this is something that you're hoping to turn into a long-term relationship.
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Where expanding that over time and extending that out would mean that you would be expanding and extending your losses.
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Obviously that should be a deal breaker right there.
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But another category that's real common is when they say, well, can't you give us the lite version?
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We don't want all the, what they perceive to be bells and whistles, all the extras in quotes, that you do that is part of what makes your services so effective.
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There may be aspects of your service that you feel like, yeah, you know, actually not everybody needs those.
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Some people do, some people don't, but that can be an optional addition following an assessment that says that they need those additional things, or something like that.
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You could say under certain circumstances, we'd be fine with not having that be part of the standard package for everybody.
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What have you.
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So talk with your team about what do we think they might ask for or offer that we would not be okay with?
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Where is our line that we will not cross.
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And let's get really clear, not only about what that line is, but why that's our bottom line.
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So for example, we're proposing a set of services at a particular price and they come back and say, we can only give you 75% of that price.
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And that's our top dollar.
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Okay, well, how can we counter that?
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What are we willing to do?
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Well, the really obvious answer is serve 25% fewer people.
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If the math works.
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Now, if you're doing something new, there could be upfront costs in what you're proposing that it doesn't work out that neatly.
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That you may have sunk costs at the beginning, no matter whether you serve 10 people or 10,000 people.
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And so that would have to go into your bottom line calculation.
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It is an incredibly productive exercise to actually kick around the question, what do we think they might ask for or counter offer that we need to be ready for?
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And that we are super clear about where we will and won't negotiate.
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Where we say, Nope, that's it.
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That is truly our bottom line.
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And you get really clear about that.
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And then you may even want to go one step further and say, and how are we going to frame that?
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Because we don't want to damage the relationship.
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And this is we're going to get to the other huge elephant in the room that stops so many leaders from being comfortable and effective with negotiation.
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And in that is the abhorrence of saying no.
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There's a lot of ways to say no, and we're going to talk about that in a minute.
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But you first have to be clear about, under what circumstances is the answer just plain no.
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We can move a lot of parts around.
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We can adjust on one side of the ledger to make up for a change on the other side of the ledger.
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And you can move the parts around up to a point.
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But there is a limit.
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And the thing you must do before you go in the negotiation, is with your team ahead of time, you figure out what that true bottom line or set of bottom lines usually looks like.
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So you got to have that first.
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And then.
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This is the one that I find people struggle with the absolute most.
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Which is, they don't want to say no.
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They want to find a way to work it out.
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And that's awesome.
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That means you are a good collaborator.
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It means you're a good problem solving partner.
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You want to figure it out.
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Right.
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And that's an awesome way to show up, as a really thoughtful, creative problem solving partner.
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But also it can so get us into trouble if we aren't able to say no, when no is the only option other than getting bulldozed.
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Other than setting up our organization and our people for a world of hurt.
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And so we have to be willing to say no.
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And if just hearing that made you cringe a little bit.
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And go, oh God, I don't know.
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I hate that.
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I don't want to do that.
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Then that's information for you.
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Most people don't like to say no.
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We want to get to yes.
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We want to find a way.
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And again, that's fantastic.
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But it only works if we are willing to set up a boundary around that bottom line.
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And say, you know what?
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No, that really just won't work.
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So let's tackle the practical stuff for a minute.
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And we'll talk about a couple of different ways you can say no that don't cause problems.
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And that's the first thing I think that's important to understand really.
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Is that There are plenty of ways to say no that aren't going to make the other person upset.
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They might be disappointed.
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But they're not going to be upset.
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Or angry or whatever.
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All the bad stuff that you imagine might happen if you actually say no.
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Chances are none of that's going to happen.
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If anything, they're likely to come away with more respect for you.
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Because you understand your bottom line.
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And you have the strength and the conviction and the confidence in how you arrived at your bottom line, to say, you know what?
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No, actually that really just doesn't work for us.
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I really want to find another way, but what you're suggesting is not an option.
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And you can ask facilitating questions.
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You don't want to assume.
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If they say some version of, well, we want the same stuff, but we want it for less money.
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Then, you know, there's really three things to negotiate about there.
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There's three questions on the table.
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There is quality, there's quantity and there's price.
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:10.636
And so you can come back and say, well, I'm hearing that you're not comfortable with the terms we're proposing.
00:18:10.876 --> 00:18:14.356
But I'd like to get to the bottom of what's the most important for you.
00:18:15.227 --> 00:18:17.596
Because there's really, basically three things at issue here.
00:18:17.807 --> 00:18:19.457
There's quality of services.
00:18:19.457 --> 00:18:21.047
There's the quantity of services.
00:18:21.603 --> 00:18:23.012
How many people are served.
00:18:23.462 --> 00:18:26.192
And then there's the price for the total deal.
00:18:26.932 --> 00:18:28.702
What are your priorities in this?
00:18:28.732 --> 00:18:30.292
What do you care about the most?
00:18:31.022 --> 00:18:33.992
Already you're putting back on them the problem.
00:18:34.876 --> 00:18:37.247
Don't let them make it be your problem.
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:39.950
You already came in with a good offer.
00:18:39.980 --> 00:18:45.680
I'm assuming you didn't come in with some wildly inflated offer on the theory that you're going to negotiate backwards from that.
00:18:45.980 --> 00:18:53.707
Although it doesn't hurt to pad your numbers a little bit for your initial proposal on the theory that they probably will try to push you back on the price.
00:18:54.099 --> 00:18:58.579
But you might be bumping your prices by 10 to 20%, not by 50%.
00:18:59.217 --> 00:19:02.182
You want to give yourself some cushion to negotiate back on price.
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:04.836
And they're expecting that you will have done that.
00:19:05.539 --> 00:19:08.420
So I assume I don't need to say this, but let me just say it anyway.
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:11.329
Never come in with your bottom line as your first offer.
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.982
That's a really bad negotiating strategy.
00:19:13.982 --> 00:19:14.762
Don't do that.
00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:21.537
But don't let them make it be your problem to solve if they want all your great stuff, all your great outcomes.
00:19:21.957 --> 00:19:25.436
And are just trying to get you to agree to an unreasonably low price.
00:19:26.163 --> 00:19:32.400
Make them take responsibility for making some concessions that will result in a good deal for both of you.
00:19:33.383 --> 00:19:43.906
And see, part of what happens I think, is that as nonprofit leaders we've been trained, improperly in my view, but we've been trained that we have to please the funder.
00:19:44.619 --> 00:19:46.240
We have to make the funder happy.
00:19:46.942 --> 00:19:50.002
And that the funder doesn't have any obligation to make us happy.
00:19:50.182 --> 00:19:52.702
We're supposed to just be happy that the funder gave us money.
00:19:53.176 --> 00:19:57.707
And then everything else in the whole transaction is us making them happy.
00:19:58.529 --> 00:20:00.079
And that is not a useful model.
00:20:00.619 --> 00:20:02.240
That is definitely not a partnership.
00:20:03.242 --> 00:20:07.527
So we have to recalibrate our brains a little and say, this is a partnership.
00:20:07.557 --> 00:20:11.640
We each got to give and get a little bit on either side here.
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:18.165
So if we're going to be negotiating, then they can't just sit back and go, well, that's our number.
00:20:18.435 --> 00:20:19.875
You figure out how to meet it.
00:20:20.695 --> 00:20:21.445
Well, no.
00:20:21.990 --> 00:20:22.529
No.
00:20:22.769 --> 00:20:27.299
Because first of all, if I'm over here trying to do all the work and guessing what's going to make you happy.
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:28.890
I'm going to guess wrong.
00:20:29.490 --> 00:20:30.839
I can't read their mind.
00:20:31.230 --> 00:20:32.309
I have no idea.
00:20:33.138 --> 00:20:34.730
Don't let that happen to you.
00:20:35.089 --> 00:20:36.200
Don't accept that.
00:20:36.589 --> 00:20:42.865
Instead, put it back on the table and say, well, I'm hearing that you have discomfort with the terms we're proposing.
00:20:43.286 --> 00:20:47.096
And there's three basic elements involved in those terms.
00:20:47.395 --> 00:20:48.776
There's the quality of the services.
00:20:48.776 --> 00:20:56.486
There's the quantity of the services and the quantity of people being served kind of as a unit there, and then there's the price.
00:20:56.875 --> 00:20:58.976
So what is concerning you the most?
00:20:58.976 --> 00:21:02.096
What are your priorities among those three things?
00:21:02.096 --> 00:21:03.625
Talk to me about that a little bit.
00:21:04.385 --> 00:21:08.496
I expect there's a way we can reach an agreement, but I need to understand your position better.
00:21:09.049 --> 00:21:12.019
And then make them talk and explain themselves.
00:21:12.869 --> 00:21:17.103
Because maybe they were just trying to see if they could get a lower price on general principle.
00:21:18.063 --> 00:21:20.073
And if you push back, they're like, oh, well, okay.
00:21:20.373 --> 00:21:20.913
Guess we can't.
00:21:21.542 --> 00:21:21.752
All right.
00:21:21.752 --> 00:21:22.022
Fine.
00:21:22.726 --> 00:21:23.655
The price is the price.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:30.519
Or, if they come back and they say, well, the price is the problem, because we really just only have this much money.
00:21:31.205 --> 00:21:32.915
I'm being totally transparent with you.
00:21:33.615 --> 00:21:36.195
I don't have another pool I can dip into right now.
00:21:36.256 --> 00:21:41.026
Maybe in the future if this partnership goes well, there may be other ways I can leverage resources.
00:21:41.026 --> 00:21:45.660
But right now for what we're talking about, You know, I'm putting my cards on the table here.
00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:48.569
This is the amount of money I have to play with and I can't go any higher.
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:51.839
Is there any way we can still work together.
00:21:52.829 --> 00:21:56.430
And then you can say well, then that leaves the other two components.
00:21:57.180 --> 00:21:59.130
That leaves quality and quantity.
00:22:00.369 --> 00:22:05.759
I think that if you care about the outcomes, we wouldn't want to do anything to diminish quality.
00:22:06.728 --> 00:22:07.597
I hope you agree.
00:22:08.468 --> 00:22:09.938
So then that leaves quantity.
00:22:10.961 --> 00:22:16.258
So let's talk about how we might make changes around quantity to get to the price that you have to get to.
00:22:16.844 --> 00:22:17.773
And you can go from there.
00:22:18.284 --> 00:22:25.753
All the while having in your head, if you and your team have figured out that there is a minimum threshold for project viability.
00:22:26.260 --> 00:22:33.871
And so if you're not going to serve at least a hundred people or whatever it is, then the project's really not viable for the reasons you wanted to do it.
00:22:34.911 --> 00:22:37.431
So you are negotiating from your own bottom line.
00:22:37.611 --> 00:22:41.663
And you can choose at some point to put all your cards on the table.
00:22:42.232 --> 00:22:44.512
And say, so the bottom line is.
00:22:45.608 --> 00:22:47.939
But here's the thing I want you to understand.
00:22:48.518 --> 00:22:52.028
If your bottom lines cannot be reconciled with their bottom lines.
00:22:52.807 --> 00:22:57.307
There's just no way to come to agreement because the bottom lines won't align.
00:22:58.218 --> 00:23:07.192
If that's the case, then all that means is that you can't do that deal, with that partner, right now.
00:23:08.153 --> 00:23:08.692
That's all.
00:23:09.673 --> 00:23:10.932
It's not the end of the world.
00:23:11.663 --> 00:23:13.893
They're saying no, as much as you're saying no.
00:23:14.903 --> 00:23:24.546
If you can't come to agreement, then it may simply be that the things that each of you need to get out of this thing don't line up enough for there to be a way to make a deal.
00:23:25.163 --> 00:23:26.885
Oh, well, There'll be another.
00:23:27.316 --> 00:23:29.415
Maybe with this partner, maybe with another partner.
00:23:30.105 --> 00:23:31.246
But there'll be other deals.
00:23:32.215 --> 00:23:35.808
So that I think is a really important thing to understand.
00:23:35.808 --> 00:23:40.488
That even though you are saying no, you're not saying no, dammit.
00:23:40.708 --> 00:23:41.067
No.
00:23:41.577 --> 00:23:42.417
What's the matter with you.
00:23:42.417 --> 00:23:44.127
How dare you suggest that we do such a thing?
00:23:44.127 --> 00:23:45.327
No, we will never do that.
00:23:45.867 --> 00:23:51.377
I mean, unless they suggested something really outrageous and you feel morally obligated to push back at that level.
00:23:51.948 --> 00:23:54.887
I suppose that could happen, but most of the time that's not what's going on.
00:23:55.755 --> 00:24:05.948
But we turn ourselves inside out and into pretzels, trying not to say no, trying to find some way to get to yes.
00:24:06.698 --> 00:24:09.505
And up to a point that is laudable.
00:24:09.505 --> 00:24:16.214
And after a certain point, when it starts harming you and your team, And your services and the people you serve.
00:24:16.701 --> 00:24:18.201
It's no longer laudable.
00:24:18.201 --> 00:24:19.191
Now it's a problem.
00:24:20.310 --> 00:24:34.298
So if it helps you to think about how you saying no is really just saying, we can't seem to find an agreement on this deal at this time.
00:24:35.095 --> 00:24:35.755
It's okay.
00:24:36.505 --> 00:24:38.005
I was really hoping we could do this.
00:24:38.095 --> 00:24:39.384
I really want to work with you.
00:24:39.984 --> 00:24:42.234
I'm hoping we can do another deal in the future.
00:24:42.474 --> 00:24:48.641
But it just looks like, given your limitations and our limitations and constraints, however you want to characterize them.
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:54.028
You know, It just doesn't look like that's going to line up and work out this time around.
00:24:54.701 --> 00:24:56.381
And you shake hands and you walk away.
00:24:56.381 --> 00:24:59.590
And you know, maybe six months from now, you come to them with a different deal.
00:24:59.891 --> 00:25:01.691
Or maybe they come to you with a different deal.
00:25:02.340 --> 00:25:06.817
It is not a failure if in the process you protected your bottom line.
00:25:07.518 --> 00:25:08.538
Let me say that again.
00:25:09.317 --> 00:25:10.667
Not getting to yes.
00:25:10.938 --> 00:25:13.397
Is not a failure.
00:25:13.667 --> 00:25:14.897
It is a win.
00:25:15.438 --> 00:25:25.278
If what you did was you protected your bottom line and you avoided getting into an agreement that was going to cause massive problems down the road.
00:25:26.147 --> 00:25:27.077
That's a win.
00:25:27.228 --> 00:25:31.157
You should celebrate that you escaped that fate.
00:25:32.178 --> 00:25:32.718
So.
00:25:32.988 --> 00:25:35.928
That's the, how we do this.
00:25:36.528 --> 00:25:41.778
Now if you're a still feeling like, yeah, but I just really, really hate saying no.
00:25:42.401 --> 00:25:48.785
There's a lot of people who are super uncomfortable saying no in any part of their life.
00:25:49.474 --> 00:25:49.894
And.
00:25:50.255 --> 00:25:56.454
It often goes to how we were raised There's all sorts of deep history usually associated with trouble saying no.
00:25:57.694 --> 00:25:58.654
But if that's you.
00:25:59.208 --> 00:26:03.055
It would probably be productive to examine that a little bit.
00:26:03.505 --> 00:26:11.990
And to take a look at where that comes from and how you came to view saying no as a dangerous thing.
00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:17.270
Because usually the things that make us really uncomfortable and that we want to run away from.
00:26:17.971 --> 00:26:19.681
Somewhere in there is some fear.
00:26:20.454 --> 00:26:27.505
And so if you have a fear around saying no, that's something that's most definitely worth taking a look at.
00:26:28.228 --> 00:26:35.788
That's a whole other episode and a whole other coaching process, really to get to the bottom of that and to understand it and to work with it.
00:26:36.448 --> 00:26:48.018
But for purposes of today's conversation, I'll just say that if that is really like a core, gut thing for you that you just feel like you would rather do almost anything than say no to somebody.
00:26:48.718 --> 00:26:50.698
Ask yourself if that's really serving you.
00:26:51.414 --> 00:26:56.125
Because chances are it's causing you trouble in more than one place in your life.
00:26:57.387 --> 00:27:00.070
Because we really have to be able to say no.
00:27:00.577 --> 00:27:01.988
In any negotiation.
00:27:02.394 --> 00:27:03.204
With anybody.
00:27:03.800 --> 00:27:06.310
Otherwise, our negotiating position has no teeth.
00:27:06.391 --> 00:27:07.320
There's no backstop.
00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:14.464
If you can't say no, then even if you and your team agreed on a bottom line, in the safety of your office.
00:27:15.330 --> 00:27:17.191
If you're then in the negotiation.
00:27:17.917 --> 00:27:23.384
And your fear or abhorrence of saying no takes over.
00:27:24.067 --> 00:27:29.407
And you find yourself crossing your bottom line, that is a huge warning flag.
00:27:30.486 --> 00:27:37.729
If you know that you struggle to say no, while you are working on that longterm as a personal development project.
00:27:38.148 --> 00:27:40.878
In the meantime to get you through negotiations.
00:27:41.497 --> 00:27:48.080
If you find yourself in danger of crossing your bottom line in order to avoid saying no.
00:27:48.381 --> 00:27:50.721
Bring somebody with you who doesn't have trouble doing that.
00:27:51.750 --> 00:27:55.928
But if you can't do that then you may want to create a little cheat sheet.
00:27:56.278 --> 00:28:02.384
a note card, whatever, some small thing that you can look at periodically, discretely.
00:28:02.825 --> 00:28:08.615
That either says what your bottom lines are, or maybe just the word bottom line with a big red line underneath it.
00:28:09.515 --> 00:28:10.595
To remind you.
00:28:11.134 --> 00:28:11.404
Yes.
00:28:11.404 --> 00:28:13.855
I know perfectly well what our bottom lines are, and oops.
00:28:13.904 --> 00:28:18.934
I was just about to throw one of those out the window because I so don't want to say no to this person.
00:28:19.837 --> 00:28:21.218
So when that happens.
00:28:21.667 --> 00:28:22.478
Take a breath.
00:28:23.061 --> 00:28:25.372
Recommit internally to your bottom line.
00:28:26.018 --> 00:28:29.172
And then put the question back on them.
00:28:30.041 --> 00:28:33.538
It's one of the most useful negotiating tools in general.
00:28:33.964 --> 00:28:39.734
Even if you have no trouble saying no, I just find it incredibly useful to always put the question back on them.
00:28:40.204 --> 00:28:42.711
When they start asking me to compromise something.
00:28:43.221 --> 00:28:46.345
And it's almost always on price, I find.
00:28:46.942 --> 00:28:54.028
Because partly what's going on is they think that it won't hurt them if they give up some quality in exchange for a lower price.
00:28:54.644 --> 00:28:58.055
Or they might actually just think that they can bully you on price.
00:28:58.384 --> 00:29:03.674
I have been in negotiations myself where that's what the other party thought.
00:29:04.307 --> 00:29:12.866
Like, well, I'll just offer a lower price and they'll take it because they're probably desperate enough that they really need the money or whatever.
00:29:13.582 --> 00:29:17.125
But then you can put it back and just say, there's three core things here.
00:29:17.701 --> 00:29:19.951
Tell me, which ones are the biggest priorities for you.
00:29:20.582 --> 00:29:21.332
And we'll go from there.
00:29:22.115 --> 00:29:24.394
You are the essence of reasonableness.
00:29:24.964 --> 00:29:27.454
The essence of reason, whatever the right way to say that is.
00:29:28.112 --> 00:29:28.981
But you're calm.
00:29:29.102 --> 00:29:29.912
You're fine.
00:29:30.001 --> 00:29:31.471
You're just seeking to understand.
00:29:32.172 --> 00:29:35.382
And then that makes them reveal more of what they care about.
00:29:35.981 --> 00:29:42.311
And it may also inspire them to actually share what their bottom line is, at least in one of those categories.
00:29:42.311 --> 00:29:43.602
And then you can work with that.
00:29:44.471 --> 00:29:46.332
Always, always remembering.
00:29:46.632 --> 00:29:50.924
That it's possible that this deal is just not the deal that's going to happen.
00:29:51.647 --> 00:29:52.667
It wasn't meant to be.
00:29:53.117 --> 00:29:53.837
It's okay.
00:29:54.407 --> 00:29:56.117
There's going to be lots more.
00:29:57.125 --> 00:29:58.384
And here's the thing.
00:29:59.125 --> 00:30:03.355
If you really can't come to a deal that works for both of you, why would you want that deal?
00:30:04.112 --> 00:30:05.342
That's not going to be fun.
00:30:06.025 --> 00:30:09.924
If you've got that deal and it was on terms that didn't make you happy.
00:30:10.494 --> 00:30:11.934
How much is that going to suck?
00:30:12.775 --> 00:30:21.055
To then work on whatever that thing is for the next six months or a year, or even longer, depending on the terms you agreed to.
00:30:21.865 --> 00:30:24.984
And you and your team are miserable and you're losing money maybe.
00:30:24.984 --> 00:30:27.355
And all sorts of things are unhappy.
00:30:27.805 --> 00:30:29.154
And you know what happens.
00:30:29.815 --> 00:30:37.657
I can tell you what happens from my perspective when I'm working on stuff that does not align with my true purpose.
00:30:38.342 --> 00:30:44.877
Or that is so lopsided in terms of who's shouldering costs and who's getting benefits.
00:30:45.657 --> 00:30:47.548
That you don't enjoy the work.
00:30:48.071 --> 00:30:49.301
You're not wanting to do the work.
00:30:49.422 --> 00:30:51.281
You're like this is a raw deal.
00:30:51.791 --> 00:30:53.112
Why did I ever agree to this?
00:30:53.142 --> 00:30:54.102
Now we're stuck with it.
00:30:54.781 --> 00:30:58.451
Ugh, We just have to sort of slog through till it's over.
00:30:59.224 --> 00:31:01.711
That definitely does not serve you.
00:31:01.711 --> 00:31:02.912
It does not serve your team.
00:31:02.942 --> 00:31:04.592
It does not serve the organization.
00:31:05.432 --> 00:31:08.041
And this is so important to understand.
00:31:08.071 --> 00:31:18.791
If you say yes to a bad deal, now that bad deal takes all the space that would have been available for a really good deal.
00:31:19.394 --> 00:31:22.065
If you had only said no to the bad deal.
00:31:22.994 --> 00:31:24.974
Cause you don't have unlimited capacity.
00:31:24.974 --> 00:31:26.444
You don't have unlimited bandwidth.
00:31:26.835 --> 00:31:30.075
Everything you say yes to is a no to something else.
00:31:31.244 --> 00:31:34.934
And I understand that a vacuum can be really, really scary.
00:31:35.595 --> 00:31:37.545
Especially if you're looking at a hole in your budget.
00:31:38.085 --> 00:31:40.394
You're like, yeah, but we've got to have the money.
00:31:40.755 --> 00:31:42.974
Yeah, it's a crappy deal, but we got to have the money.
00:31:43.434 --> 00:31:54.071
Uh uh Find another way because once you say yes to that, now that is taking up the space that a much better deal could have been occupying.
00:31:55.617 --> 00:31:55.978
So.
00:31:56.251 --> 00:31:57.152
All that to say.
00:31:57.647 --> 00:31:58.538
Two secrets.
00:31:59.122 --> 00:32:01.932
Know your bottom line, get super clear on it.
00:32:02.481 --> 00:32:04.494
Road test it a little bit internally.
00:32:04.795 --> 00:32:12.795
Make sure that you've taken a look at what some of the counter offers might be or what some of the pushback might be on your bottom line and test.
00:32:13.461 --> 00:32:14.961
Let's make sure it's the right bottom line.
00:32:15.352 --> 00:32:18.741
Sometimes, if you test it, you'll find that it maybe could be adjusted.
00:32:20.061 --> 00:32:23.332
And get clear about what line you will not cross no matter what.
00:32:24.152 --> 00:32:24.721
And then.
00:32:25.478 --> 00:32:26.258
Learn to say no.
00:32:26.978 --> 00:32:28.867
And learn to say no in very creative ways.
00:32:29.627 --> 00:32:32.178
There's a thousand ways to say no in a negotiation.
00:32:32.801 --> 00:32:36.342
I don't think I've ever actually said the word no in a negotiation.
00:32:37.035 --> 00:32:40.664
I've said plenty of times, I don't think we have a way to make a deal.
00:32:40.664 --> 00:32:41.654
We're just not aligned.
00:32:42.211 --> 00:32:42.751
It's okay.
00:32:43.327 --> 00:32:45.127
I hope we can do another deal in the future.
00:32:45.827 --> 00:32:48.228
When we both have things that are a little bit more aligned, whatever.
00:32:48.857 --> 00:32:51.827
But fundamentally you are saying no to the deal.
00:32:52.382 --> 00:32:55.531
Even though you're probably not going to say the word no to the person.
00:32:56.208 --> 00:32:59.407
Because there's 99 times out of a hundred, no need.
00:32:59.827 --> 00:33:03.008
There's other ways to say it that leave the door open.
00:33:03.798 --> 00:33:05.387
That preserve the relationship.
00:33:06.035 --> 00:33:12.144
And express the belief that, Hey, you know, this deal didn't work, but we really want to work with you all.
00:33:12.625 --> 00:33:16.615
There's going to be a deal in the future that's going to be great for both of us.
00:33:16.615 --> 00:33:21.798
And I look forward to talking with you about that as soon as it materializes.
00:33:21.798 --> 00:33:22.488
Or however you want to say it.
00:33:22.847 --> 00:33:24.827
But you're expressing optimism for the future.
00:33:24.827 --> 00:33:28.278
You're expressing a belief that there will be a way to do a deal.
00:33:28.748 --> 00:33:29.708
Just not this one.
00:33:29.708 --> 00:33:30.307
Not today.
00:33:31.518 --> 00:33:35.538
No is not no forever and ever, and ever to that person.
00:33:36.198 --> 00:33:37.877
It's just no to this deal.
00:33:38.701 --> 00:33:43.261
So let go of the heaviness of the one deal.
00:33:43.958 --> 00:33:45.337
There will be others.
00:33:46.488 --> 00:33:50.238
Fundamentally, know your bottom line and learn to say no.
00:33:50.688 --> 00:33:52.928
And mean it and hold that bottom line.
00:33:54.157 --> 00:34:01.011
When you do that, you will find that not only will your negotiations go a lot better.
00:34:01.738 --> 00:34:06.311
But you're also going to find that the people negotiating with you.
00:34:06.917 --> 00:34:10.744
Their respect for you will go way up.
00:34:11.521 --> 00:34:14.702
Because they're going to respect the fact that you know your bottom line.
00:34:15.331 --> 00:34:16.382
And that you won't cross it.
00:34:17.297 --> 00:34:21.934
And it also tells them that when you do find a way to make a deal together.
00:34:22.414 --> 00:34:30.144
That you're going to be a really good partner because you're not going to do something self-destructive like agree to something that wouldn't be a good deal for you.
00:34:31.224 --> 00:34:39.757
The amount of credibility and respect that you create with your ability to hold your bottom line is huge.
00:34:40.597 --> 00:34:43.108
So let that be an inspiration to you.
00:34:43.824 --> 00:34:45.235
Let that fortify you.
00:34:46.215 --> 00:34:51.565
And my hope for you is that when you have both of these things solidly in place.
00:34:51.954 --> 00:34:56.034
That the result will be that you very rarely need to say no.
00:34:56.844 --> 00:35:02.065
Because how you approach a negotiation changes when you've done these two things.
00:35:02.485 --> 00:35:06.025
You come in with more confidence, come in with more clarity.
00:35:06.565 --> 00:35:13.952
And you come in with the right energy to move a negotiation in a direction that is going to result in a deal that works for you.
00:35:14.811 --> 00:35:18.021
And when you do that really good deals start to happen.
00:35:18.411 --> 00:35:19.672
And that's what I want for you.
00:35:20.481 --> 00:35:21.382
Thanks for listening.
00:35:21.831 --> 00:35:25.251
And I'll see you in the next episode right here on the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
