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You're listening to the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
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In today's episode, we reveal the identity cues from decision makers that tell you how to talk to them and what to talk about.
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So stay tuned.
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If you want to have real and powerful influence over the money and policy decisions that impact your organization and the people you serve, then you're in the right place.
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I'm Kath Patrick and I've helped dozens of progressive nonprofit leaders take their organizations to new and higher levels of impact and success by building powerful influence with the decision makers that matter.
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It is possible to get a critical mass of the money and policy decision makers in your world to be as invested in your success as you are.
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To have them seeking you out as an equal partner.
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And to have them Bringing opportunities and resources to you.
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This podcast will help you do just that.
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Welcome to the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
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Hey there folks.
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Welcome to the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
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I'm your host, Kath, Patrick.
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I'm so glad you're here for today's episode.
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One of the most underappreciated and overlooked factors that go into successfully engaging decision makers is identity.
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Identity is so powerful.
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It shapes how we see the world, and ourselves.
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It shapes how we relate to the world.
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And in the context of advocacy, it shapes how the decision maker sees the issues and problems we're engaging them on.
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There can be an important difference between identity and role or title.
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Both matter, but we often assume they're the same, and wind up just speaking to the decision maker role That risks missing out on a huge engagement and messaging opportunity.
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And we just can't afford to do that.
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Most decision makers have additional significant identities other than their role or their title.
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Often that identity comes from their field of expertise, their professional background.
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Whatever got them where they are now.
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They didn't just get hatched as leaders and decision-makers.
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They had a path to getting there, and all of the things on that path have formed part of their identity.
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We're going to focus primarily on those professionally related identities here.
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But we'll also talk about other aspects of identity, and how you can leverage those as well in your messaging.
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Whenever a decision-maker says something in a conversation with you that references their identity.
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Like," as a lawyer, this is my take".
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As a doctor, or as an engineer, as a data analyst.
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As a fill in the blank.
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When they're doing that, they're telling you so many things.
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They're telling you how they see the problem.
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How they think about the problem.
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And how they want to approach solving it.
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They may not have said any of those details yet.
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But as soon as they self reference an identity like that, that's telling you, this is the lens through which I am looking at this whole conversation and situation.
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Now the thing to realize is that, just going after their title or their role, you might've said, okay, this is an agency director, or this is a business leader in a contracting partnership, or this is an elected official.
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And so you've done the analysis of, okay, well, what do elected officials care about?
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What's keeping this person up at night?
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What does this agency director, what they have to worry about?
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And that's all very important analysis, and you do want to do that.
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But identity is so core to how people view the world.
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And any given decision-maker in any given official role, could have a number of different backgrounds that brought them to where they are now.
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And that background is part of the identity from which they're operating.
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So think about how different it is, if someone says well, as a physician, blah, blah, blah, versus well as an engineer, blah, blah, blah.
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Those two creatures are thinking about a problem in a really different way.
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Right in two different ways.
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So knowing what identity they're operating from is incredibly valuable information and it absolutely should affect how you frame everything you say to them.
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Fact is, identity affects what you talk to the decision maker about, what you say to them about those things, and how you engage them around those things.
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So let's look at some examples.
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These are all identities I've run into in advocacy contexts in working with direct service Nonprofit interests.
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So a decision maker who is also a physician.
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Perhaps they're a leader in a governmental health department, perhaps they're a leader at a hospital Or a managed care organization.
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The physician's framework is, how does this thing affect the patient's health and wellbeing?
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And perhaps how does it affect the public health, depending on their background.
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An engineer wants to know, how does this work?
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How is it put together?
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What makes it work?
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That's the engineering mind.
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A researcher wants to know, how do we know this is true?
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What evidence is there?
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What is the integrity of that evidence or data?
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A data analyst wants to know what do the data say.
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But they also are thinking, what data will we need if we do this thing this advocate is talking about.
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How can we get good data?
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Will it be reliable?
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Somebody with a fiscal background is probably thinking, what are the costs?
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What's the ROI?
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Will this hurt or help our bottom line?
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Somebody who thinks of themselves as a compliance person is thinking about, what are the rules?
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How do we make sure people follow those rules?
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Someone who identifies as a business owner, or a business executive, is thinking, what's the opportunity?
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What's the ROI?
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How can this be as efficient as possible?
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Now any one of those professional backgrounds could be operating in an elected official role.
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They could be operating as an agency decision maker.
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A contracting partner decision maker.
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So when that layer of identity is factored in, you can see how it shifts what they're thinking about.
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And it may or may not be in line with what you thought would be the case, given their title or their role.
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The whole exercise we always do in terms of planning and preparing our messaging for a decision maker, is we are thinking about what is their current role.
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What's keeping them up at night?
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What are they focused on?
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We want to do that same thought process with their identity, how they identify themselves.
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The thing is sometimes you will know that identity in advance.
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And sometimes it may be revealed in conversation as you're talking with them.
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So you want to be able, ultimately, to adapt your messaging on the fly when a new piece of identity is revealed that you didn't know about before.
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We're going to talk first about how you can plan ahead when you do know what some of that identity is.
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So you want to do that research as much as possible ahead of time.
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Now with elected officials, that's pretty easy because they will almost always have some kind of a bio on their elected official website.
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Almost always you're going to be able to find this online fairly easily, because they want you to know this.
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The thing with elected officials is they want to seem as relatable as possible to their constituents.
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So they want the constituents to understand all the pieces that make up their identity.
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So they will typically share that.
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And the thing with elected officials is you know, some of them are lawyers by trade, but most of them are not.
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Most of them come from all different parts of life.
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You get all the ones I mentioned.
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You get physicians, you get engineers, you get farmers, you get small business owners, you get teachers.
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you get all kinds of people.
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It's a cross section of the community.
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So understanding the professional identity that someone has that they bring into that role as an elected official is incredibly valuable.
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Because honestly, they're probably at least half the time thinking about issues and problems through the lens of that identity.
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Now with agency folks and contracting partners.
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Usually there's going to be a little bit more of alignment around what role they're in, particularly with agency folks.
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And particularly at high levels of decision-making in an agency.
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So for example, a, director of a state or city or county health department very probably has either a background in medicine, or a background in public health, or both.
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And again, typically you can find a piece of that on LinkedIn.
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And you can also in their description of the jobs that they've had, the roles that they've had.
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They will share something about their philosophy or their approach to that.
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So you can have an agency decision maker that, you know, it's probably going to be aligned in some way.
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In the housing space you might have an agency decision maker who comes from public housing administration.
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They might come from an advocacy background.
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In the workforce development universe you can get folks with almost any background.
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So you might have somebody who started out in the apprenticeship world and that's their background.
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You might have someone who started out in labor statistics who was an analyst of some kind.
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You're gonna have a lot of different backgrounds.
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Similarly, with a contracting partner.
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They may have a business background, but they may not.
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They may have a subject matter background of some kind and an identity around that.
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It's really just look for where their expertise lies, and how they wielded that expertise in previous roles.
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And that'll tell you a lot about how they think about the world.
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To the extent you can, you want to try to learn a little bit about that ahead of time.
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Because what you're then going to do is think about how you're going to approach your messaging and your engagement based on that knowledge of identity.
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And you're also going to do some of this on the fly in the room eventually.
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The other thing to know is that no matter how much research you do ahead of time, other identity elements will be revealed in conversation.
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And you want to be very astute and attentive to that.
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Because every additional piece of identity information that they give you tells you how they're framing and looking at the world.
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And you want to be able to meet them there.
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That's the most critical piece.
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You want to be able to meet them there and build on that identity.
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Acknowledge that identity, build on it, engage them through it with language that works with the lens they're operating from.
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And they will often say in a conversation, well As a physician I'm thinking about, okay, how is this going to work?
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How are the patients going to access this service?
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How is that going to play out?
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Is it going to be something that gets prescribed?
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Is it going to be something that they are offered through their health plan?
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How's this going to work?
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Their identity is driving the lens through which they see the set of questions.
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So you meet them there with your messaging.
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They'll often say, well, as a fill in the blank, I'm thinking about the following questions.
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Or I'm wondering about.dot dot.
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And when you go to answer that, you take your cue from the lens they've given you.
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You want to still keep with your key messaging elements, the things you need the decision maker to get in order to come to agreement that the thing you want is the right thing to do.
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So you're still driving toward that.
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But you're now going to frame it in the context of patient experience, in this case.
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I totally agree with you.
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Patient experience is so important.
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It's our number one focus.
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When we designed these services we were all about how can we make this as frictionless and easy for the patient as possible.
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Because we know that if there is friction, there won't be follow-through, there won't be uptake.
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And then they won't get the benefit of this amazing service.
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So we are very much about that.
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And let me explain to you how that would work.
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And then you tell them a little bit about the technical answer to their question.
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But you've met them where their head is, where their identity is.
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Their identity is driving that question.
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The caring physician is asking that question.
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Not the agency head.
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Not right that minute.
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The agency head will surface and ask its own questions.
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But in that moment, it's the physician in them that's asking the question.
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That's focused on the patient.
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Let's say you're dealing, and this can happen in agencies a lot.
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You're dealing with somebody who came up through the ranks as a compliance officer.
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And they're very rules focused.
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And so whether they volunteer compliance officer or not, they will say something like, well, I'm really wondering about, you know, this seems kind of loosey goosey here and I don't know how are we going to make sure that there are clear rules in place so that we don't have a lot of extra people getting these services that shouldn't.
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Or how are we gonna, make sure that the people receiving the services are providing the right documentation or whatever's relevant in that context.
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You may have a very different opinion about just how many hoops a client should have to jump through.
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And your goal is minimal hoops.
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But you got to hear from that person, they're focused on there needs to be rules so that we can control this thing.
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Right.
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So you turn that around a little bit and say, You know, I totally understand your concern about not wanting this to be unclear.
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And have too many people flooding the system or people getting things they're not entitled to.
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We believe that there are very clear categories of individuals who will benefit greatly, and for whom this service will provide the strongest outcomes and the greatest benefit.
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And so we agree that we want to be focusing the services on the people who are most likely to benefit.
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So how we suggest doing that is having a very clear definition about what problem the services are designed to solve, and who those target populations are.
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And let's work together to clearly define that, so that we make sure that the people who are going to benefit most are the ones who get priority for services.
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I'd love to start the conversation there.
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So you're redirecting.
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What you don't do is get into an argument about, well, no, that's the wrong way to look at things.
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Because, you know what.
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If you do that you're telling them their identity is wrong.
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And that is a losing proposition.
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No matter what the human interaction is.
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Anytime any human tries to say to another human, your identity is wrong, or the entire way you look at the world is wrong.
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That's the last thing that person hears, cause they have tuned you out forever.
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So sometimes meeting them where they are in that identity can be a little, bumpy.
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Because they may be expressing things that you don't agree with.
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But find a place to meet their area of concern.
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And turn it around to yes, we do want to clearly define things because we want to make sure maximum benefit, greatest possible outcomes.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Let's work together to do that.
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And then once you've got them working with you on that, then you can go back later and begin to tackle some of the thornier bits.
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And you'll basically be in the position of needing to explain to them how sometimes flexibility is key to success.
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But you have to be prepared to show how that works.
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And be able to say, flexibility in areas A B and C is very important.
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Because that's at the discretion of the provider based on an evaluation.
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But what we can do is say that there always has to be that evaluation.
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Because participants are best served when they are first evaluated.
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So we're totally for that.
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But then the provider has to have the discretion to assemble the most effective possible collection of services.
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So we need to leave that in the good judgment of the trained professional who is going to make that assessment.
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So you're just helping satisfy that need for rules and guardrails and controls.
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Without having those rules, guardrails and controls mess up the people who are supposed to be benefiting from the service..
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Let's take another one.
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Let's take somebody who's got a background as a business owner or a business executive.
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Business owners tend to pop up in elected roles, and business executives tend to pop up in contracting roles.
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And so when they emphasize that in conversation and say, well, as a business owner, you know, I have concerns here because I can see that this is going to cost a lot.
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I don't know about the ROI on this.
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You're gonna have to convince me that this isn't just, a never-ending expense.
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And we may or may not see a return on that.
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And I'm not okay with that.
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Or they might say, yep.
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I see the ROI, but this seems really inefficient to me.
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Can't this whole service thing be streamlined so that it's more efficient and this gets done in less time and people are moved through faster and can't we just streamline the whole thing.
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First of all, I'm going to assume you're prepared to address any ROI questions.
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So we'll jump to the efficiency one.
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So there's a couple of things to know about business people when they're talking efficiency.
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There is a business school of thought, literally, that efficiency means lowest cost.
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So you always have to be alert when the word efficiency is used by anyone with a business background, because it may be that that is what they mean.
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They might not actually mean well can't we just make this so that things move faster and more tightly.
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They might mean that.
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But they might also mean efficiency means lowest cost.
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Why can't we get the service for less?
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Why don't we go with the bargain basement provider?
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And so you may have to ask some questions there.
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You may just want to say, help me understand what you're thinking with that.
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And let them talk a little more.
00:19:21.592 --> 00:19:28.102
And then once they've told you which version of efficiency they're thinking about, then you can go to address it.
00:19:28.761 --> 00:19:33.801
If they're in the lowest cost mindset and that's what efficiency is.
00:19:34.251 --> 00:19:44.731
Then you can talk them through why and how the lowest cost solution does not have the components that actually lead to the outcomes.
00:19:45.327 --> 00:19:52.887
That in order to get the outcomes that everyone agrees we want, we need to have the more robust version of the service.
00:19:53.278 --> 00:19:59.038
And of course the more robust version involves more things, so it is a bit more expensive.
00:19:59.488 --> 00:20:02.968
But we have to always come back to ROI.
00:20:03.178 --> 00:20:06.748
Yes, you can put less in on the investment side.
00:20:07.407 --> 00:20:12.984
But your return is going to be disproportionately lower if you skimp on the investment.
00:20:13.724 --> 00:20:23.497
And if they're actually thinking more in terms of the other concept of efficiency, which is just like streamlining and making things move faster and with less gap here and there.
00:20:23.961 --> 00:20:31.904
You can engage them around that and say, well, so let's talk a little bit about how the service actually works and where greater efficiency would be helpful.
00:20:32.595 --> 00:20:35.051
Because you can probably agree with them on some pieces of it.
00:20:35.443 --> 00:20:38.233
And say, yeah, we don't like that there's lag time here.
00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:48.121
But actually the reason that lag time exists is because of this piece of policy, this policy language right here, which we would really love to change.
00:20:48.421 --> 00:20:51.060
Because it actually creates an inefficiency.
00:20:51.090 --> 00:20:52.921
And we agree with you that that should be tightened up.
00:20:53.250 --> 00:20:54.240
Let's talk about that.
00:20:54.931 --> 00:20:57.871
But over here with this other part of the service process.
00:20:58.361 --> 00:21:09.431
Actually when it looks like nothing is happening, what's happening is that the person participating in this process is integrating what they've learned and applying it.
00:21:10.097 --> 00:21:11.268
And that takes some time.
00:21:12.188 --> 00:21:17.107
We teach them how to do this piece and then they practice it and we coach them through it.
00:21:17.167 --> 00:21:21.097
And so integrating that learning actually takes time.
00:21:21.577 --> 00:21:25.208
For some people it's very quick and for others it takes longer.
00:21:25.268 --> 00:21:31.480
And so that piece has to be left flexible on timing because this is not one size fits all.
00:21:32.003 --> 00:21:38.897
We work with the individual to make sure that they are getting what they need in order to get the outcome that we want.
00:21:39.448 --> 00:21:40.617
For some people that's quick.
00:21:40.617 --> 00:21:41.548
For some it's not.
00:21:42.077 --> 00:21:53.192
And so we need the flexibility to make sure they're actually getting what they need because what happens is, if we just say this part should only take two weeks and that's how long there is.
00:21:53.632 --> 00:21:56.422
The people who are able to do that in two weeks will be fine.
00:21:56.422 --> 00:22:01.055
And the people who need four weeks for that are going to drop off at that point in the process.
00:22:01.442 --> 00:22:03.694
And so you will have still made the investment.
00:22:04.172 --> 00:22:06.211
But you will no longer get the return.
00:22:06.684 --> 00:22:10.454
Because they won't make it to the end of the process where they're going to get the outcome.
00:22:11.025 --> 00:22:20.815
So we have to be mindful of managing our investment well, so that people are getting what they need throughout the process to be able to actually produce that return.
00:22:21.625 --> 00:22:25.647
So that could be how you could engage someone with that kind of an efficiency question.
00:22:26.188 --> 00:22:32.152
We could do these examples all day, but I just wanted to give you a sense of how you would work with that.
00:22:33.048 --> 00:22:35.944
But the thing that's so critical about identity.
00:22:35.944 --> 00:22:37.295
And I just can't say this enough.
00:22:37.872 --> 00:22:44.795
Is that it informs the way people see problems and issues almost more than anything else.
00:22:45.422 --> 00:22:47.318
even if they don't voice it.
00:22:47.909 --> 00:22:53.134
It's great when you're in a meeting and somebody says, well, as an engineer, this is what I think about.
00:22:53.439 --> 00:22:54.352
How's that going to work?
00:22:55.055 --> 00:22:55.744
That's great.
00:22:56.214 --> 00:23:00.295
But they might be sitting there thinking that and not saying it.
00:23:01.105 --> 00:23:03.444
And then you're like, well I don't know.
00:23:03.444 --> 00:23:07.612
I can tell that I'm not getting traction here, but I don't know what's in the way.
00:23:08.224 --> 00:23:15.724
So, the more information you have about that identity piece the more you can speak to it, even when they haven't raised it yet.
00:23:16.845 --> 00:23:26.618
One of the techniques for doing that, that can be really effective on multiple levels, is to call out that identity and the person's name.
00:23:26.991 --> 00:23:30.741
To help focus their attention on whatever it is that you say next.
00:23:31.515 --> 00:23:38.828
So you might say, well, Susie, as a physician, I know that the situation of XYZ will be familiar to you.
00:23:39.058 --> 00:23:40.709
I'm sure you've seen this many times.
00:23:41.588 --> 00:23:44.048
And then you gauge the reaction before you proceed.
00:23:44.108 --> 00:23:47.679
But you've called out their identity and their name.
00:23:48.108 --> 00:23:49.368
Double attention getter.
00:23:49.808 --> 00:23:50.949
Now they're focused.
00:23:51.765 --> 00:23:55.875
Mary, as an engineer, I know you understand the importance of.
00:23:56.368 --> 00:23:57.734
And then say whatever.
00:23:58.271 --> 00:24:00.721
But you're giving them a bridge to your message.
00:24:01.352 --> 00:24:02.882
Like, Hey, I see you.
00:24:03.362 --> 00:24:04.291
I get you.
00:24:04.682 --> 00:24:06.602
But you don't say, I know what you're thinking.
00:24:07.311 --> 00:24:08.582
It's such a fine line.
00:24:08.922 --> 00:24:09.582
It's subtle.
00:24:10.536 --> 00:24:15.258
Instead you can say, I'm sure you're familiar with.
00:24:15.798 --> 00:24:18.647
I bet you know a lot about blah.
00:24:19.214 --> 00:24:22.097
You frame it that way so you've pulled them in.
00:24:22.248 --> 00:24:23.657
You've flattered them, frankly.
00:24:23.718 --> 00:24:25.798
I bet you know a lot about X.
00:24:26.327 --> 00:24:27.347
Who doesn't want to hear that?
00:24:28.218 --> 00:24:32.258
And by the way, simply acknowledging identity is huge.
00:24:32.781 --> 00:24:36.382
As human beings we really love to be seen.
00:24:36.897 --> 00:24:41.224
We love when people notice something about ourselves that we really value.
00:24:41.741 --> 00:24:43.781
And people value their identities.
00:24:44.214 --> 00:24:52.785
So you're pulling them in, in a lot of different ways when you just call their name and call the identity, and then say something that is the bridge to what you want to talk about.
00:24:53.424 --> 00:24:55.375
I'm sure you've seen a lot of this.
00:24:55.375 --> 00:24:57.144
Or, I bet you know this problem.
00:24:57.144 --> 00:24:59.125
I bet you've seen this a bunch of times.
00:24:59.815 --> 00:25:05.994
And then if they nod or give any other verbal or nonverbal cue that yes, they're with you.
00:25:06.394 --> 00:25:07.265
Absolutely.
00:25:07.365 --> 00:25:08.325
You got that right.
00:25:09.434 --> 00:25:13.275
Then you can lean in and say, so here's the thing.
00:25:13.674 --> 00:25:15.025
This is how this plays out.
00:25:15.555 --> 00:25:18.422
And then you describe the thing playing out.
00:25:18.948 --> 00:25:21.684
In the framework that they've already offered you..
00:25:22.442 --> 00:25:24.001
So back to the physician.
00:25:24.692 --> 00:25:30.721
If they're focused on patient care, or maybe they're focused on public health, but we'll do patient care for the moment.
00:25:31.471 --> 00:25:32.102
So.
00:25:32.102 --> 00:25:34.172
You know, Susie as a physician.
00:25:34.478 --> 00:25:43.064
I'm sure you deal all the time with the problem of patients being really inconsistent in following instructions and sticking with a medication regimen.
00:25:43.296 --> 00:25:44.286
We totally get it.
00:25:44.435 --> 00:25:46.468
And we share your frustration.
00:25:46.867 --> 00:25:59.240
But we also are fortunate to be in a position with our services to be able to build in some supports that help mitigate that problem and help make it easier for the patient to stick with that.
00:25:59.810 --> 00:26:01.131
And then you describe what it is.
00:26:01.941 --> 00:26:08.361
Maybe you're running an FQHC and you've decided to employ a whole bunch of community health workers to solve that problem.
00:26:08.540 --> 00:26:16.961
So maybe you talk about that and say, we've discovered that with our community health worker program, that we're able to do all these amazing things to help engage patients on a different level.
00:26:17.740 --> 00:26:20.111
Or you might be in the nutrition space.
00:26:20.548 --> 00:26:22.827
And you're talking about here's what we've discovered.
00:26:22.887 --> 00:26:31.723
That when people are getting consistent, healthy nutrition, that they are much better about sticking with their medication routine.
00:26:32.173 --> 00:26:33.104
And here's why.
00:26:33.134 --> 00:26:35.584
Because their thinking is clearer.
00:26:35.614 --> 00:26:41.101
When their nutrition is solid and they're eating regularly and they're eating stuff that's good for them, their head is clearer.
00:26:41.221 --> 00:26:42.240
They feel better.
00:26:42.601 --> 00:26:47.681
They're more open to taking more steps to be in control of their health.
00:26:48.221 --> 00:26:53.778
But also, you know, a lot of the medications we find that folks are on cause nausea.
00:26:54.627 --> 00:26:59.155
And so if they're already not eating regularly or not eating well.
00:26:59.576 --> 00:27:02.605
And then they've got medication that causes nausea.
00:27:02.605 --> 00:27:03.476
They're just like, you know what?
00:27:03.506 --> 00:27:04.615
No, I can't.
00:27:05.276 --> 00:27:08.469
And so we're able to work with that.
00:27:08.618 --> 00:27:11.618
And we're discovering that we can actually really mitigate that problem.
00:27:11.618 --> 00:27:16.058
So it's a really exciting additional outcome that comes from our services.
00:27:17.159 --> 00:27:23.159
So if you're already working in healthcare, somebody who self identifies as a physician is a really easy thing to riff off of, right.
00:27:23.548 --> 00:27:30.148
But let's say you're in the healthcare space and you get somebody who's telling you about, they want the efficiency from the business owner perspective.
00:27:30.509 --> 00:27:31.558
You can still address it.
00:27:32.298 --> 00:27:35.588
Just again, always clarify what they mean by efficiency.
00:27:36.246 --> 00:27:38.653
But you can take that and turn it quite easily.
00:27:39.432 --> 00:27:46.726
Because again, you will always know that there are certain pieces of your stuff that can be made more streamlined for your client And there are things that can't be.
00:27:47.056 --> 00:27:49.635
And then you want to be able to explain the difference.
00:27:49.635 --> 00:28:05.452
And walk them through why ultimately, if you tried to speed up the process or take pieces out that appear to be extra and adding complexity where it ought to be more streamlined from the perspective of the business person.
00:28:05.905 --> 00:28:21.986
You want to be able to explain how actually those things that appear from the outside to be extra or delaying, are in fact part of the secret sauce that actually causes the amazing outcome, which is what generates that incredible ROI.
00:28:22.959 --> 00:28:30.996
So to add a little complexity to this, but not telling you anything you don't already know as a human being with identity.
00:28:31.516 --> 00:28:34.998
Is that most people operate from more than one identity.
00:28:35.698 --> 00:28:43.048
Now, obviously in the context of decision-makers stuff, their professional identity and background is going to be the primary driver.
00:28:43.698 --> 00:28:46.567
But be aware that there could be others.
00:28:47.077 --> 00:28:52.917
The professional perspective is going to be the one that shows up most often and is most immediately relevant.
00:28:53.330 --> 00:28:59.171
But other aspects of their personal identity can be equally valuable as a frame in your messaging.
00:28:59.768 --> 00:29:08.167
And some of the most common ones that tend to work really well in direct service Nonprofit land, are identity as a parent.
00:29:08.587 --> 00:29:11.708
Identity as a caregiver of any kind.
00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:18.740
And whenever you find those identity pieces that they let you know they're using as a frame.
00:29:19.114 --> 00:29:22.384
You want to be able to engage them from that frame.
00:29:23.023 --> 00:29:27.763
The identity of parent is one that I like to use because it's such a high frequency occurrence.
00:29:28.192 --> 00:29:30.413
Not everybody's a parent, but lots of people are.
00:29:31.303 --> 00:29:39.103
And even if they're not approaching the issue at hand that you've come to talk about, with a parental lens.
00:29:39.492 --> 00:29:46.333
If you believe that there is value in having that lens be brought into play, you can call it up for them.
00:29:47.202 --> 00:29:49.482
And this would be something you would have thought through ahead of time.
00:29:49.972 --> 00:29:51.113
To pick something really obvious.
00:29:51.143 --> 00:29:57.638
If you do anything in the childcare space, there are very few parents who can't identify with childcare related issues.
00:29:58.098 --> 00:29:59.719
So that'd be like a super obvious one.
00:30:00.125 --> 00:30:01.476
But it's a great way to connect.
00:30:01.749 --> 00:30:02.979
And it's a great way to frame stuff.
00:30:03.603 --> 00:30:06.393
Maybe you do something in the teen services space.
00:30:06.962 --> 00:30:12.363
Being able to connect with a person for whom a piece of their identity is as a parent.
00:30:12.393 --> 00:30:18.685
Being able to connect with them over the challenges that teenagers face can be incredibly valuable.
00:30:19.215 --> 00:30:22.455
Even if your services are focused on deeply troubled teens.
00:30:22.903 --> 00:30:26.346
And certainly not every parent has dealt with deeply troubled teens.
00:30:26.615 --> 00:30:29.542
But they understand that all teens struggle.
00:30:29.865 --> 00:30:32.135
It is the nature of that season of life.
00:30:32.556 --> 00:30:39.499
And so you can connect with them around their not just factual knowledge, but their emotional knowledge of that.
00:30:40.098 --> 00:30:45.675
And so part of what's happening whenever you're engaging someone around a piece of their identity.
00:30:45.726 --> 00:30:51.246
When you successfully engage that identity and connect with them through that lens and that frame.
00:30:51.756 --> 00:30:53.465
You're engaging them emotionally.
00:30:53.935 --> 00:31:01.945
Because as human beings, our ties to our identity, and how we see ourselves, how we identify ourselves in the world, is deeply personal.
00:31:02.645 --> 00:31:04.145
Take any of the examples I used.
00:31:04.145 --> 00:31:08.358
Physicians, engineers, data analysts, business people.
00:31:08.449 --> 00:31:10.249
There's gajillions of them in the world.
00:31:10.249 --> 00:31:13.368
It's not like they're unique because they have I have that identity.
00:31:13.925 --> 00:31:20.165
But that identity is central to who they are and how they feel about themselves and how they see themselves in the world.
00:31:21.019 --> 00:31:28.482
And so when you connect with them around identity, you are connecting with them at a very deep level.
00:31:28.992 --> 00:31:30.972
Whether they realize it or not.
00:31:31.863 --> 00:31:34.173
So it is incredibly powerful.
00:31:34.563 --> 00:31:43.695
It's also, part of the power is that as human beings, we want to be seen, we want to be known for what matters to us.
00:31:44.086 --> 00:31:52.058
And so when someone sees us, when you see a decision-maker, when you truly see them and they feel seen, they feel understood.
00:31:52.568 --> 00:32:01.578
That builds a connection that you're not going to get just talking facts and figures, or even engaging them over their concerns in their official role.
00:32:02.403 --> 00:32:04.113
Identity goes deep.
00:32:04.913 --> 00:32:07.665
And engaging people through identity goes deep.
00:32:08.028 --> 00:32:11.175
And has the potential to create incredible returns.
00:32:11.996 --> 00:32:15.506
But learning to do this and learning to pick up those cues.
00:32:15.786 --> 00:32:20.623
Because sometimes, people will say, well, as a fill in the blank, this is what I think.
00:32:21.028 --> 00:32:22.499
Other times it'll be more subtle.
00:32:22.499 --> 00:32:26.489
You may have to find it out on your own, or they'll give you a cue that isn't as direct.
00:32:27.155 --> 00:32:28.895
They might say things like.
00:32:29.308 --> 00:32:33.779
When you name a problem that you solve, and they say something like, Oh, yeah.
00:32:34.409 --> 00:32:35.818
You know that there's a connection there.
00:32:36.278 --> 00:32:37.929
Don't skip over that.
00:32:38.385 --> 00:32:42.959
Stop and say, I can tell you know, something about that.
00:32:43.373 --> 00:32:46.242
And just look them in the eye and wait to see if they share more.
00:32:46.752 --> 00:32:47.893
Most of the time they will.
00:32:48.726 --> 00:32:52.078
Sometimes they just let it fall out of their face without intending to.
00:32:52.739 --> 00:32:57.909
But if you're talking about a problem that resonates for them and they say something like that, then there's identity there.
00:32:58.326 --> 00:32:59.165
And you want to learn that.
00:32:59.705 --> 00:33:02.496
So you're looking for any cues you can find to identity.
00:33:03.333 --> 00:33:04.353
They might say.
00:33:04.833 --> 00:33:07.883
I started my career in nursing 20 years ago.
00:33:08.303 --> 00:33:11.542
And when I was at a hospital working on that, I saw a lot of that.
00:33:12.148 --> 00:33:12.628
Okay.
00:33:13.016 --> 00:33:16.736
If they're bringing that up now, 20 years later.
00:33:17.546 --> 00:33:20.965
What they're telling you is that that's still part of their identity.
00:33:21.486 --> 00:33:22.986
And that you can reach them through that.
00:33:23.935 --> 00:33:27.326
There's a lot of different ways that you can pick up on identity.
00:33:27.655 --> 00:33:35.935
And the more you are in tune to that, the more you are listening for that, looking for that, the more you're going to hear it.
00:33:36.756 --> 00:33:38.375
It's there all the time.
00:33:38.826 --> 00:33:42.286
The problem is that we tend to ignore it.
00:33:42.375 --> 00:33:54.125
We tend to be so focused on getting our messaging out, not picking up those subtle cues that are going to give us the entry to reach the decision maker on such a deeper level.
00:33:54.403 --> 00:33:56.202
And get so much further with our engagement.
00:33:57.058 --> 00:34:01.009
The bottom line with all of this is that once you learn that identity piece.
00:34:01.009 --> 00:34:06.818
Then what you're doing is adjusting your messaging to frame it in the context of that other identity.
00:34:07.509 --> 00:34:15.338
And if you know something about that identity before you go into the meeting, then you want to practice how you're going to frame that.
00:34:15.956 --> 00:34:17.905
Until you get really good at this.
00:34:17.936 --> 00:34:19.706
And even when you are good at this.
00:34:20.068 --> 00:34:21.329
Don't just say to yourself.
00:34:21.358 --> 00:34:21.958
Oh yeah.
00:34:22.219 --> 00:34:26.449
I know that they're a physician, so I'm definitely gonna include that in my framing.
00:34:26.878 --> 00:34:27.358
Hmm.
00:34:27.813 --> 00:34:29.853
What's that going to look like, what are you going to say?
00:34:30.432 --> 00:34:30.733
Okay.
00:34:31.032 --> 00:34:32.143
Don't write a speech.
00:34:32.172 --> 00:34:35.112
Don't write down three paragraphs of what you're going to say.
00:34:35.143 --> 00:34:35.952
That's not what I mean.
00:34:35.952 --> 00:34:37.003
What I mean is.
00:34:37.346 --> 00:34:39.715
If you know that part of their identity is.
00:34:39.746 --> 00:34:45.389
I'm just going to keep using the physician example cause it's in my head, cause I just ran into this in a meeting earlier this week.
00:34:45.998 --> 00:34:49.239
If you know that, then don't, just say, oh yeah, I'm going to use that.
00:34:49.478 --> 00:34:54.545
Say as a physician, what are they likely to be concerned about in the context of what we do?
00:34:55.096 --> 00:34:55.396
Okay.
00:34:55.396 --> 00:34:57.226
Well, let's say they're concerned about patient care.
00:34:57.465 --> 00:34:59.266
They might be concerned about public health.
00:34:59.326 --> 00:35:00.376
Don't know that for sure.
00:35:00.976 --> 00:35:10.476
And they probably have familiarity with the challenges that the people we serve have from a healthcare standpoint.
00:35:11.226 --> 00:35:25.585
But what I want from them in this meeting, when I'm actually going to engage them about is, I want them to agree to a policy proposal that's going to expand services that are healthcare adjacent.
00:35:25.996 --> 00:35:27.646
But are not directly healthcare.
00:35:28.346 --> 00:35:28.885
Okay.
00:35:29.315 --> 00:35:46.842
So then what you're going to be thinking about is, how does what you do ultimately affect patient health outcomes And If you're familiar with the concept of, depending on which room you're sitting in, social determinants of health or health-related social needs.
00:35:47.297 --> 00:35:58.989
There is tons of research that's has very clearly established that all kinds of other factors in people's lives that specifically tend to affect low income people, have detrimental effects on health.
00:35:59.619 --> 00:36:04.260
So environment, safe and stable housing, food security and good nutrition.
00:36:04.829 --> 00:36:07.483
All kinds of things affect health outcomes.
00:36:07.932 --> 00:36:10.340
And so even if you're in the housing space.
00:36:10.806 --> 00:36:16.340
And you discover that the decision maker going to be talking to also happens to have a medical background.
00:36:16.777 --> 00:36:21.179
I Have a couple of messaging points that speak to that, and be ready to talk about that.
00:36:21.893 --> 00:36:26.679
But you want to at least sketch out your thoughts on how you're going to make those connections.
00:36:27.369 --> 00:36:32.961
And the less clear they are to you initially, the more important it is that you sketch it out.
00:36:33.347 --> 00:36:36.978
Because you may or may not be able to pull together those connections on the fly.
00:36:37.945 --> 00:36:47.735
Now, once you've done this for a while, and particularly when you get practiced with particular types of framing for commonly occurring identities in your decision maker space.
00:36:48.405 --> 00:36:52.025
You will get to where you can make take these messaging adjustments on the fly.
00:36:52.414 --> 00:36:57.034
When someone shares something new about their identity, that you had no idea about.
00:36:57.804 --> 00:36:59.844
But when you're first learning this.
00:37:00.414 --> 00:37:04.688
And the decision maker says something new, that you didn't know that identity.
00:37:05.047 --> 00:37:08.347
Don't be surprised if when that happens, you got nothing.
00:37:08.498 --> 00:37:09.487
You're like, huh.
00:37:10.027 --> 00:37:10.628
Okay.
00:37:11.228 --> 00:37:14.824
And you can't think of anything that connects to what they just gave you.
00:37:15.304 --> 00:37:15.934
That's okay.
00:37:15.965 --> 00:37:16.804
Don't stress.
00:37:17.307 --> 00:37:26.807
Remember that this is an ongoing process of relationship development, that you are building a relationship with these decision makers over time.
00:37:27.108 --> 00:37:34.961
And so if they share a piece of identity with you in one conversation and you got nothing available in your brain to make a connection.
00:37:35.277 --> 00:37:35.668
That's okay.
00:37:36.710 --> 00:37:37.538
Just file it away.
00:37:38.617 --> 00:37:44.378
And then when you get back to your office, first of all, make a note of that, make a note of what you learned.
00:37:44.438 --> 00:37:44.918
Okay.
00:37:45.157 --> 00:37:51.378
They revealed this piece of an identity, and they said these two things about how it made them think about the problem.
00:37:51.855 --> 00:37:55.155
Or it caused them to have these couple of questions, whatever.
00:37:55.788 --> 00:37:59.478
So you first make a note of it so you don't lose track of that, don't forget that it happened.
00:37:59.967 --> 00:38:04.777
And then you get to thinking when you have time and space and non-stressful moment.
00:38:05.177 --> 00:38:11.418
To say, how can I help them understand this better using the lens they've offered up.
00:38:12.101 --> 00:38:20.141
How can I make this make sense to them through that lens and help them get closer to where we want them to be.
00:38:20.581 --> 00:38:23.041
Whatever it is we want to get them to say yes to.
00:38:23.472 --> 00:38:28.032
How can I help them get closer to yes by responding in the context of this frame.
00:38:29.012 --> 00:38:32.014
And then the next time you talk to them, you can go with that.
00:38:32.574 --> 00:38:38.527
And you can even say, you know, the last time we talked, you asked such an interesting question or you made such an interesting point.
00:38:38.887 --> 00:38:40.958
And I've been thinking about it ever since.
00:38:41.335 --> 00:38:43.824
And I really would love to pick up that conversation again.
00:38:44.304 --> 00:38:46.675
And then use that as your segue and jump right in.
00:38:47.405 --> 00:38:52.835
If it's something that was urgent, obviously you might do that follow up communication initially in writing.
00:38:53.375 --> 00:39:02.411
If you're not going to see them again for several weeks and you think that they've handed you a framing opportunity that you really want to use right away.
00:39:02.411 --> 00:39:07.041
Because for timeline reasons or whatever you want to get them moving on this sooner.
00:39:07.851 --> 00:39:10.552
Then go ahead and follow up in writing and do the same thing.
00:39:11.126 --> 00:39:13.521
But then the next time you see them, raise it again.
00:39:14.132 --> 00:39:17.371
Use that opportunity to connect through identity.
00:39:17.702 --> 00:39:19.322
It is beyond powerful.
00:39:19.981 --> 00:39:21.811
Whenever you connect with identity.
00:39:22.233 --> 00:39:25.324
you're going to find decision makers lean in more.
00:39:25.686 --> 00:39:26.947
They get more invested.
00:39:27.373 --> 00:39:29.673
And it takes them less time to understand.
00:39:30.034 --> 00:39:34.143
Because you're connecting the dots for them in a framework that already makes sense to them.
00:39:34.869 --> 00:39:36.429
And that is a gift for both of you.
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:41.309
And will certainly help you get the results you want with that decision maker.
00:39:41.809 --> 00:39:42.530
Sooner.
00:39:42.597 --> 00:39:45.507
And more effectively Thanks for listening.
00:39:45.657 --> 00:39:49.766
And I'll see you in the next episode right here on the Nonprofit Power Podcast.
